Pete Burns of Dead Or Alive - Good For a Quote or Two

Lexicon, Issue Number 9, Fall 1998

By Dan LeRoy

How could you write the history of the 80s without mentioning Dead or Alive and its flamboyantly garbed, flamboyantly tongued frontman, Pete Burns?

Pete Burns would like to know how, too.

"At the moment in the UK, various fashion magazines are doing these big 80s retrospectives. And they're mentioning everything the most unlikely things that were big in the 80s but me," said Burns, during a phone interview from his London home. "And yet out of probably 75 percent of these people and things that they're mentioning, people like Hazel O'Connor and stuff like that, I outsold the whole lot of them, and I also didn't force myself down the public's throat."

The 80s were salad days for Burns and drummer Steve Coy. On the strength of the worldwide dance-pop smash "You Spin Me Round," plus Burns' gender-bending appearance and ready quotes, Dead or Alive was one of Britain's most notable exports. But legal battles with producers Stock Aitken Waterman and a changing club climate derailed the momentum, although the group still retains superstar status in Japan.

"It almost seems like certain sections of the media have developed a blindness, like I never existed. And I still am existing, and I think there's people in the English media that that really gets up their nose. And I look at it now and think, Well screw you, I'm going somewhere else."

That somewhere else, Burns hopes, is America. He says he's desperate to relocate to New York, and wants to find American management and press representation. For the first time in nearly a decade, Burns also has a new album out stateside. "Nukleopatra," originally released in Japan in 1995 and now augmented by two new remixes of "You Spin Me Round", has just been released domestically by Cleopatra Records. In addition, a US tour with the Human League is being discussed. And Dead or Alive is contributing songs to tribute albums for two other 80s icons: Madonna (they'll cover "Why Is It So Hard') and Prince (Burns has picked the obscure 'Out of All the People in the World').

"Even if major, mainstream, Grammy Award success doesn't come to our doorstep, I will always be able to make a relatively healthy living in America. And I would rather make a healthy living through my music in America than a mega-living anywhere else," Burns said.

During an hour's conversation, Burns, now with a new look that suggests Betty Page playing the Queen of the Nile, showed he remains as quotable as ever, on a variety of other topics.

Q.At one point you described "You Spin Me Round" as 'a jailer', and complained that it would probably be played at your funeral.

A.Yeah. There's always one song that becomes almost torture, and you get a love/hate relationship with it. We spent probably four minutes composing that song, 16 years ago, and it seems that I'm going to have to talk or explain or remix it forevermore.

Now initially my response was, this isn't the way it's supposed to be. I'm supposed to be able to change and move forward. But I never will, and I've accepted that, you know. There's a kind of frustration that can drive you completely fucking crazy, or you can learn to accept that that's the way the world is.

Q.Is that acceptance behind the decision to have another go at the song on the new record?

A.That's not my doing. That is completely out of Australia. Australian DJs, without any of our permission, remixed that song. Because throughout Europe, particularly in the UK and Australia, people have been doing cover versions of that song. One that you won't know about: George Michael actually put a version out a couple of years ago, under the name of... what was it called?...Infamy. And someone from a record company in Australia turned up at our door with these remixes and said; "We'd really like to give you guys a deal in Australia." And it was very successful there, and record companies talk, and it kind of went round the world. It was kind of like a McDonald's burger,everybody would be interested in us if they could take that song.

And yeah, it was easy, it was done, it was no work for me. The fact it's been remixed and slightly changed actually relieves the monotony of performing it on stage every night. It's kind of given it a new slant for me. Not as new as I wish it was, but...I can live with it.>

Q.Did you see the version of "You Spin Me Round" that Adam Sandler did in 'The Wedding Singer?'

A.Well no I haven't, but I've heard about it, and occasionally I get a check. And what's good about it is, everybody asks me about it. I haven't heard it; I've got no wish to hear it. I've got no wish to see anything starring Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler, and thank you very much and goodnight (laughs).

Q. The new album is made up of stuff that goes as far back as '90 and '91. Do you have any concern about trying to reapproach America without stuff that's brand new?

A. No I don't. I mean, I know where the question leads. Surprisingly enough, even when I haven't had domestic releases in the US, the import sales of whatever I've done have been very good. I've always had a real hardcore following over in America. And I have no idea where it's come from. Now I'm kinda like five steps up a ten-step ladder, just on the hardcore following. So I'm just hopin' we can get over there.

Q. There are some songs on the new record that are pretty funny, like "I'm A Star.". There's been tongue-in-cheek humor on most of your records, but it doesn't seem that you guys have ever gotten credit for it.

A. You know, to be honest, and I don't mean to sound bitter about it: we've never gotten any credit at all, other than from the people who part with the money and buy the records. We've had no credit whatsoever from anybody, now that's another thing I've got to accept! It just doesn't happen. Because maybe people think I'm cryin' out with desperation for credit and attention. And that's where the song "I'm A Star" sort of came about. That's what I suspect other people's perception of me is. I'm always hearin' stories about myself, about places I've never been, about people I've never met. You become just another factor in people's fantasies, really.

Q. In that particular song, you kind oftake a dig at George Michael and Take That, which reminded me of some of the running battles you had with Boy George in the press, back in the '80s.

A.Well, you must realize that the press goaded that along. The rift between Boy George and me, you know- let's get this out in the open. I hated his music in Culture Club and continue to stand by the right to dislike it. I've met him since, and read his book; he's actually a really nice guy. I have nothing but admiration for the way he conducted himself after his downfall. I also have a certain envy, because America's allowed him to come back, before Europe did. Only in America can you fall apart as George did, and get another chance. Now the mention of Take That and George Michael in that song, yeah, I do find them pretty dull and borin', if I look at them as a consumer. I can't see what everybody gets so excited about. I do respect them as artists. They just happened to rhyme at the time I was in the studio. They weren't even written on paper.

Q. You're coming up on your 10th year producing your own records with Steve Coy.

A. Believe me, that was a complete accident! (laughs)

Q. But does it bother you that a lot of people still associate you with Stock, Aitken and Waterman?

A.Well, I'm glad you've asked that. To be honest with you, their name has long since ceased to hang over my head. Just to get this down correctly, I'll go through it one mouthful at a time. When we were making "Sophisticated Boom Boom";...that was the nearest to doing what I wanted to do, which was a sequenced, hard, metallic disco sound. When we recorded that album, with a very wonderful German producer named Zeus B. Held...he wasn't geared up for commercial success, and neither was I. It was really like kids learning how to ride a bicycle, doing that album. And then suddenly, out of America, came a record called "Native Love", by Divine, and it was produced by somebody named Bobby O. And immediately, I just about fell on the floor when I heard that record. I wanted to have that sound...so badly, that we wanted to go to Bobby O. We heard nothin' but bad stuff about him in the industry, and he'd ripped Divine off, and there was all this shit goin' down. We were begging the record company in England to let us go to Bobby O, but the record company in England didn't wanna know. Then suddenly, Divine resurfaced in the UK, and he'd been produced by Stock Aitken Waterman, with a record of a similar sound, although not quite as good. Now, our record company could get their head around that, so we went to them. But we're the only people that they have ever, ever worked with who composed their own material. They used to operate the mixing console and show us the technology that was out of our kind of income bracket. All I can say is, I have no bitterness with them. But during the recording of "You Spin Me Round" and the album YOUTHQUAKE, they did everything, EVERYTHING in their power to encourage us not to have that disco-pop sound. So the album ended up a bag of shit. Once "You Spin Me Round" was a hit, and it wasn't an easy hit to get, they suddenly realized that this was the road to their riches. And they just more or less recruited people -- garbagemen off the street -- like Bananarama, and recorded the same sound for them. And for a short period in the '80s, our sound- and it was our sound, there was only us and New Order that did that sound, people like Erasure were just shit on my shoe in those days- they came along and capitalized on our sound, the sound that we'd had real battles in the industry to come out with. And we ended up in years of legal battles, trying to find new producers, but no, nobody wanted to touch somebody produced by Stock Aitken Waterman. They thought they were probably completely untalented. But all those years later, in 1993, we signed to Stock Aitken Waterman's record label to do the "Nukleopatra" album. And there was no bad blood about it, and they weren't gonna be producin'it. We were gonna bring in other producers, before their record label folded. We've still got a similar sound without them. But we are desperate to work withAmerican producers.

Q. Anyone right off?

A.Missy Elliot. I don't know why, but because what she does is so strange that it would be a complete surprise. I would put myself completely in her hands. I just heard something she'd done with one of the Spice Girls, and I was blown away by it.

Q. You and Steve have been working together for, I guess, going on 20 years. What is it that keeps the partnership going?

A.I should have a really concise answer for you, but to be honest, that's the first time anybody's ever asked me that question. Because we are both really like-minded in a lot of ways. I just think you must have a really strong sense of irony to operate in showbiz, because there's a lot of bullshit in it. And we've got the same sense of irony. We're both very much in control of what we've done all these years, and it's just instinct now. We don't even need to sit down and have a meetin' or talk about it. And Steve's got a much more logical temper than I have. You know, you work in the studio sometimes, and you'll maybe do a song and go "I hate that song. I really don't want to hear that song again." (But) maybe your producers would say, "Oh, but this is the most commercial song on the album." Now Steve is good, he'll make sure that that song no longer exists on tape.

Q. When you became famous, a lot of people who assumed you were gay were surprised to find you'd been married for years. Are you still married?

A. I'm absolutely still married. I'm whatever I wanna be on any given day. As I grow older, I become more and more aware of people hammering what they are and who they are into stone like the Ten Commandments. I don't know why people get this real arrogance that what they are today they still will be tomorrow, in any sense of existence. I reserve the right to change my mind at all times, about anything. What I am now, I might not be in an hour. Everything there is in life, I've done and been through. I feel no need to go through those things any more. But who knows? Tomorrow I might.

Q. Ever have a desire in the last 20 years to grow a beard? Wear a pair of Dockers? Play it completely straight?

A. Absolutely not! But believe me, if that was a desire of mine, I'd have done it. If it was a desire of mine to stick a fucking scythe through my head, I would do it, and I wouldn't really consider it anybody else's business. I think that a lot of people that have laughed their asses off at me over the years, and it still happens on the street sometimes, they may think that this is just about the most absurd, pretentious and stupid thing they've ever seen. But if they could step inside my shoes for just seven days of the week and see just how different life can be from my point of view, and see how many privileges you'll get and also how many strange sides of human nature you will see, life itself becomes more entertainin' than the CNN news.