Pat Geary speaks to Pete Burns on September 17th, 2000. Recorded in the UK. A RIGHT STUFF exclusive!!

Pat: Pete, would this all have to do with the choice of the album title, "Fragile"?

Pete: Oh my God, yes. Because during the first few weeks of that, that's what I felt. Because suddenly...I'd be getting ready to go to the studio, and I'd be asleep on the sofa, like a narcoleptic. I would get to the studio, and we'd be programming stuff. And then I'd be asleep and be woken up at 11 o'clock at night to go home. And I thought "Is this stress induced, or is this genuine fatigue?" And it was fatigue. And gradually through doing certain things, the energy levels built and built and built. Not to the hysteria point. To very rational energy levels. The work started at certain times and it stopped at certain times.
And that was definitely why the album was titled "Fragile". Also, because due to legal reasons, having to re-record from scratch six of our old hits, which is a perfectly feasible marketing ploy for a new record label...Having to re-record those six tracks, not as the Greatest Hits, as new songs. Because I own the goddam song. The record company think they do, but that's morally wrong. They don't own the song.
So we had to re-record them from scratch. And that was a fragile process. Because there's only so many times I can bear to try to add something to "Something in My House" or "Lover Come Back" or "Spin Me Round". I can't really add any more.
And one of the greatest challenges we had was one of the requested covers was, self covers, was "Brand New Lover". And I listened to "Brand New Lover" twelve inch three times, and I said to Steve, "There's absolutely no way we can better this. Just leave it alone. It can't go on the album, it can't be bettered." Because I consider that to be one of our finest works, you know.

Pat: I know a lot of people complain when these songs reappear. You know how some fans always have to have something to moan about. But is it fair to say, Pete, that YOU are not the one behind all these decisions when these songs reappear. It's not because you're saying, "Oh, let's put those out again" There's other considerations to do with the business side of things.

Pete: Well, Pat, at the end of the day, and what the kids out there should realise is this is a business and it isn't actually MY business. I create the flower, and the florist orders the flowers they want, and then sells it. But I will always be creating flowers. And florists can close down, but flowers always grow.
Also, yes, people do love the repetition syndrome. We can see that by looking at MTV. I mean how many more times do I really need to hear Britney Spears, "Oops, I Did It Again"? How many times do I need to hear Eminem? I hear it four times a day. Sometimes I turn on the radio and, for instance, Victoria Beckham's on the radio, and I switch on the TV, and it's on the TV at the same time. And it's become almost to the point of subliminal brainwashing.
And I do think that, how do I phrase it...as an artist, we are lenient on that. Because, I could have been in every paper. I could have been in Hello Magazine up the wazoo. I could have done a whole load of Christmas shows on TV in the UK, doing "You Spin Me Round". And I wasn't prepared to do that.
But then common sense says in order to say to a DJ...for instance, me seeing Cher today, "Hi, I'm Pete Burns from Dead or Alive". "Oh, I've heard of them." "You remember Spin Me Round?" "Oh yeah, I get it".
They remember you for one thing. Judy Garland was remembered for "Over the Rainbow". But if Judy Garland walked up to somebody and said, "Do you remember my song, 'Happiness Is a Thing Called Joe'?", they wouldn't remember her.
If Dusty Springfield went up to somebody, and said, "Do you remember me for 'Hollywood Movie Girls'?", no, it would be "I Only Want to Be With You". You create your own...(pause)...padded handcuffs, really.

Pat: Yes, I think for a long time you viewed "Spin" as a real albatross. And I recall a point where you sort of accepted that everybody has these songs as a gift. Like you said there, they're a gift with two edges to it

Pete: But it didn't say anything about me. It was just a song that said nothing about me. So, like that has saved my ass, that song. Even now, it's being used on movie soundtracks, Sony videogames, permission to go in brand new movies, compilation albums.
There's not a day when that song doesn't do something and generate money. So, of course, I love it, I love it!

Pat: (laughs)

Pete: But I do have other things. And I can't take for granted they'll be more successful [than "Spin Me Round"]. But I do have to move on. I'm sure if you ever had the chance to interview Madonna, would she be very interested in talking about "Material Girl"?

Pat: I doubt it.

Pete: No, but it's been the one that brought the attention. So you don't even have a love-hate relationship. You do love it for what it's done for you. But it's like having a child. You know, once a child gets to like 32, you probably think your son should leave home.

Pat: Yeah, it's still clinging to your neck, and it gets heavy after awhile, I would imagine.

Pete: Not heavy, just mundane. But then again, I've also come to terms with the fact that real life and even show business is mundane because even when you're doing a tour, it's the same show every night and the same speech between songs. Because your brain has to switch off at the repetition.

Pat: Doesn't it seem, Pete, that the more of yourself that you do reveal in your art, the harder it is sometimes for these record companies to know what to do with it? Because it's not something that's simple and that can be boiled down into something crass and commercial. It's complicated...

Pete: No, because I think there's a whole new array of people out there who are going through or have been through the same. Who understand almost telepathically. And they aren't catered for.
So between me and my public...(and that sounds so arrogant!)

Pat: Not at all, I don't think so.

Pete: Me, and they're not kids, I don't know what to say. I don't like to say fans because it's from the definition of fanatic, which means a psychiatric illness.

Pat: Your audience.

Pete: Well, my audience, yeah. Between me and my audience I think there's quite a good understanding. And if there isn't, you know they could always ask for a refund. I'm not offended by that at all.

Pat: Well, I think your current audience are the ones who DO get it.

Pete: Well, they've stuck by me through thick and anorexically thin. (laughs)

Pat: Like on "Nukleopatra", the title song of the album, that sort of sets out in very clear terms, I think, the issues that define you as a person, or at least make you different than so many other people in the public eye. And on "Fragile", I think we're still exploring that inner contradiction between a person who is soft and fragile but can also be very tough. And isn't that tied in with the male/female thing, where people associate femininity with being soft. And yet you can be and are very often called upon to be a very tough person.

Pete: Define tough, Pat. Tough to me means fight-full...

Pat: No, I mean that you can stand your corner and not let people do things to you that you don't want done.

Pete: Hold on one second, I've got to think about that. I'm smoking a cigarette. ...(pause)...My only habit now is nine cigarettes a day. And you know what? I don't think that's too bad.
Anyway, "tough"...I think determination, it's like I wasn't brought up in a strict manner. But if my mother, Eva, and I were out walking, and the way kids do, I wanted a glass of lemonade and I was thirsty, she'd tell me to control my thirst until we got to a lemonade store. Instead of complaining about it and throwing tantrums all the way.
So I learned a certain amount of control. Which didn't make me tough. It gave me discipline, as in my exercise regime. I fucking hate it, but it's discipline. Because what else would I do? I can't write songs 24 hours a day.

Pat: Well, I think if somebody told you to do something that you thought was mediocre, you would refuse to do it, whereas a lot of people...

Pete: Well, I did it with "In Too Deep". You know, I love the song "In Too Deep", but I was very uncomfortable with it because it was just, it wasn't my idea for the muscial direction. That was down to Stock, Aiken and Waterman. It was my song, and that's the way they recorded the backing track. And everybody suddenly got this incredible enthusiasm that we were going to turn into a band that could do that kind of music as opposed to high energy.
And which I hope goes in print, from several major sources in the music industry, during the time I was saying high energy should be available to, not just gay people. Good things only begin in the gay culture, i.e. fashion, beauty, glamour. All of the supermodels are photographed by gay men, because somehow gay men manage to put the fantasies...oh I can't say it properly.
Somehow, gay men are a walking encyclopedia of every glamour symbol and vamp that there is. And they know how to project that onto a woman.

TO BE CONTINUED

Copyright (c) 2000 Pat Geary. All Rights Reserved. Not to be reprinted or reproduced in any form in whole or in part without written permission.